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December 01, 2008

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Fred Destin

@Joe:

1/ The point on AAA tranches in asset-backed securities is that upon initial structuring they sit at the top of the securitisation structure in terms of quality. Below them are typically a equity piece (really toxic and not sellable), a BBB piece, a A and a AA piece (for example). So for the AAA tranches of "high quality" asset backed to be suffering significant losses is a strong proxy indicator of the depth of the trouble in these portfolios. Whilst we have been focused on subprime this seems to be hitting the mainstream MBS and CDO assets, which I do find scary. that points to very deep underlying asset issues and it's a leading indicator of what is to come.

2/ I won't disagree there but senior classes trading at 30-50 cents on the $ is a fact (and not a good fact).

3/ Mmmmh. If Chinese money stops flowing into US government securities, who is going to fund a stimulus package worth 7% of GDP ? It's quite perverse that rich economies rely on emerging market money that would be best employed at home, which is why I think a USD deval is in the works. For us (Atlas) being a USD fund this is not good news, although the current weakness of GBP does make our lives easier in the UK.

Max Niederhofer

Disclaimer: I profited from the USD on the way down, on the way up and I plan to do so again once it's peaking, which it may be (or not, I ain't going to start picking bottoms here). But point well taken on the US economy.

I think many things look oversold. Lots of highly cash generative businesses out there trading at low low fcf multiples. But again, let's not pick bottoms.

What a great time to have cash - it's what everyone wants these days. And what a great time the next three years will be to build companies. Less competition. More talent. More time. Better prices. Fundamentals stronger than ever. And the big boys just blinked.

Illegitimi non carborundum, etc.

Ivan O'Dwyer

If 65% of the investment base is gone, what is going to happen to that handy side effect of investment - innovation?
If VC investment is slowing, entrepeneurship is curtailed, and if entrepeneurship is curtailed, the pace of innovation slows accordingly.
Where is it going to come from? If as I'm hearing , the Angels have spread their wings and flown away- and the VC's are worried about getting more capital..What is going to sustain innovation?
Is the Environmental Crises enough to create it? We used to have World Wars, Cold Wars and Space Races for this kind of thing.....whats going to fill the void?
Is The Green Imperative enough by itself to fill it?...The cruel irony is that innovation may stall right at the point we need it most..

Joe Cohen

Fred
It's never great to be scared but I have to take lot's of issue here:

1. There is no such thing as AAA anymore. The ratings agencies stopped doing their jobs sometimes in the past ten years so we should assume all assets are BBB unless proven otherwise.

2. Your expert has no, exactly zero, credibility. These are the same guys who told us 'everything is great' in asset backed securities for the past five years so why should we believe a word he has to say? These folks burned their own house down.

3. Which leads to the contrarian view, money needs to go somewhere and it will (under mattresses). Maybe not the places that drive markets and generate fees but that's a reality we all have to live with.

Believe any financial services intermediaries at your peril. Trust your instinct and observe what real people do in their real lives - maybe not pretty either but certainly less doom and gloom.

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